Troll Poll

[jimhines]

At what point do you label someone a troll?

Some of the discussions on my blog get pretty intense and heated. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I appreciate it, actually. I learn a lot from people challenging my ideas or offering different perspectives.

I do have a problem with people who consistently violate Wheaton’s Law. But I’ve also watched people swoop into a conversation at Dick Factor Nine, only to eventually turn around and say, “Huh … okay, I guess maybe you have a point there. Sorry for being a dick.”

Yeah, it doesn’t happen often. But it has happened.

To me, a troll is someone who shows up solely to stir things up and piss people off. There’s zero interest in the conversation, zero interest in listening. It’s a game for the troll’s amusement, to poke buttons and see who s/he can piss off.

To me, clueless =/= troll. Angry =/= troll. Even blatant violation of Wheaton’s Law doesn’t necessarily equate to trolling. We all act like jerks sometimes. (I might still ban you for repeated offenses, but I wouldn’t automatically assume you were a troll.)

I think we tend to label people trolls too quickly. And from what I’ve seen, I think we sometimes do it as a way to dismiss people we disagree with. (I’m including myself in the “we” here, by the way.)

What do you think? We can’t read minds, so when do you decide someone is just trolling and no longer worth responding to?

• Is the “Men’s Rights” advocate who shows up in one of my rape posts to argue that “Rape is a weapon used by feminists to attack men!” a troll?
• What about the anonymous commenter who says, “I know it’s off-topic, but I wanted to tell you I read your latest book, and it was utter trash.” Does it make a difference if they aren’t anonymous?
• Does the guy who shows up using offensive language (i.e., “That’s so gay/retarded!”) count as a troll? What if he continues to use that language after being told it’s offensive?

It’s possible I’m overanalyzing this. But I’m curious what others think.

Mirrored from Jim C. Hines.

Comments

[branchandroot]

Hmm. I do think there's some congruency between "clueless asshole" and "troll", actually, in that neither has any interest in conversation. Their comment, and any response to it, is there purely to serve as their personal arena. In the case of trolls, the arena is for their amusement; in the case of the clueless asshole it usually seems to be for their self-justification. In both cases, though, I'd say the point of setting that arena up is to make them feel all comfy with themselves at the clear expense of others. So I think I can see why the two would be used interchangeably in all three of the examples above, and especially the first. The clueless asshole may, as you say, in very rare cases be brought to a state of lesser cluelessness with sufficient hammering--there's a bit less deliberate intent to cause pain and upset there. Usually. Hopefully. But the effect overlap is pretty big, between CA and T, and given that part of most privilege-asshole conversations involve debunking the "I didn't /mean/ to insult anyone egregiously" thing I can also see why some people are starting to use "troll" on the basis of effect rather than intent.

[jimhines]

...I can also see why some people are starting to use "troll" on the basis of effect rather than intent.

Ooh. I like that distinction, particularly since it bypasses the problem of being unable to ever truly know the other person's intention. But of course, authorial intent isn't necessarily relevant :-)

[brownbetty]

+1

And there's also Clueless Stupid, which is someone who is genuinely interested in learning, but you really do have to hold their hand every step of the way. They can be nearly as much trouble as a troll, and if you're trying to host a discussion for, say, rape survivors, they are just almost as likely to say something hurtful.

[cleverthylacine]

I have been clueless stupid on other issues, but not that one, and omg do I regret it.

I would not disagree with the use of the word 'just'.

[jimhines]

It says something about the state of the Internet these days that I misread your first line as "And there's also Charlie Sheen..."

I need to go back to bed for another few hours this morning, I think.