jimhines

A while back, we had a discussion on the blog about the cover art for my princess novels. For the most part, I really like these covers, but they’re not perfect.

Now I could talk about the way women are posed in cover art … or I could show you. I opted for the latter, in part because it helped me to understand it better. I expected posing like Danielle to feel a little weird and unnatural. I did not expect immediate, physical pain from trying (rather unsuccessfully) to do the hip thing she’s got going on.

I recruited my wife to take the pictures, which she kindly did with a minimum of laughter.

Being me, I naturally couldn’t stop there. I headed over to Amazon and grabbed a sampling of book covers, primarily urban fantasy, and spent the evening doing a photoshoot.

I’m tempted to use the Night Myst pic as my new author photo.

In all seriousness, I spent the rest of last night with pain running through most of my back. Even the pose in The Shape of Desire, which first struck me as rather low-key, is difficult to imitate and feels really forced. Trying to launch my chest and buttocks in two different directions a la Vicious Grace? Just ow.

To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with being sexual. I can totally see Snow from the princess books flaunting her stuff, for example. But posing like these characters drives home exactly what’s being emphasized and what’s not.

My sense is that most of these covers are supposed to convey strong, sexy heroines, but these are not poses that suggest strength. You can’t fight from these stances. I could barely even walk.

Guys, you should try it sometime. Get someone who won’t laugh at you too much to try to help you match these poses. The physical challenge is far more enlightening than anything I could say. (Wardrobe changes are optional.)

A few covers which I feel do a pretty good job of conveying strong, capable female characters: The Gaslight Dogs, An Artificial Night, The Darkest Edge of Dawn. Other suggestions and general discussion are welcome, as always.

Mirrored from Jim C. Hines.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Date: 2012-01-11 04:17 pm (UTC)

From:

dantesspirit

no subject

ROTFL. It would probably help to either be a dancer or a gymnast, both of which have that both of which have that boneless limbre that we regular folk can only dream of.}:P

Date: 2012-01-11 04:19 pm (UTC)

Oh, and C.E.Murphy's books, L.A. Gilman's books and Michelle Sagara's books tend towards better, more achievable poses.}:P

jimhines

Yes. In fact, I had a dancer weigh in on LJ saying she could do most of these poses without much effort.

Having seen some of the amazing things a good dancer can do though, I don't think that necessarily generalizes to the rest of the population.

Date: 2012-01-11 04:29 pm (UTC)

Having seen some of the amazing things a good dancer can do though, I don't think that necessarily generalizes to the rest of the population.

I agree. Even when I was still in the Marines and in the best shape of my life, I could not do those poses. No way, no how. Most of us simply don't have the body for it, period.

Date: 2012-01-11 04:24 pm (UTC)

lea_hazel

Admittedly your dedication to costuming is pretty impressive.

I don't suppose you've come across the blog Escher Girls on Tumblr or Twitter? The archivist collects some of the worst examples of posing and anatomy, mostly from comic book and video game art. I'm half a mind to suggest she look at urban fantasy cover artists, next.

Date: 2012-01-11 04:31 pm (UTC)

I was linked to that just this morning in the comments over on LJ :-)

Date: 2012-01-11 05:09 pm (UTC)

al_zorra

Exotic dancers, of course, specialize in these moves and poses -- many of them manage to do them while upside down on a pole too.

Reminds one of the Ginger Rogers quip, that she could do everything Fred Astaire does, except she did it backwards and in high heels. Ever since I encountered that Roger's bit I've thought, "This is what it means to be a woman." You do everything everybody else does, just better, with more stacked against you too. And yet you're still not considered good enough even to be noticed.

Love, C.

Date: 2012-01-11 08:08 pm (UTC)

niqaeli

I'm a former gymnast who has in the years since gotten quite a bit more zoftig while retaining a good chunk of the flexibility I acquired in the course of my gymnastics career. Recently, I've taken up belly-dancing. It's true, they're not impossible poses, any of those actually. I could perform most of those poses to a fairly reasonable degree of accuracy without really noticing much in the way of pain caused by assuming the pose (which is not to say necessarily without any pain from the pose; gymnastics generally trains you out of normal pain perception -- it takes high levels to break through your filters because a base level is pretty common).

And yet, that being the case, I would not expect most women to be able to perform them, let alone men! I have, over the years, become acquainted with normal flexibility, and those poses require a higher level of flexibility to perform comfortably than even most women who yes do overall tend to have looser joints and wider hips.

The thing is, you're right; attempting the pose should emphasise what is, well, being emphasised. And what *isn't* being emphasised. Are the poses of those particular covers possible? Sure. They're not plausible, however, as you certainly don't just happen into those poses. Because rather than argue over what is natural vs. unnatural (because high levels of flexibility can be a natural physical characteristic), it's probably more productive to talk about what is intentional vs. unintentional. Every single one of those women had to work herself into that position intentionally -- she did not simply happen to pause in that pose in her normal business of carrying on!

And most of those poses certainly aren't communicating strength as a primary attribute. To hold those poses will require strength -- which may be a contributing factor if you're still sore and hurting from them, aside from any flexibility issues -- but that's not what most people are going to see simply looking at the pose. (Unless they're sufficiently trained in dance, martial arts, or what have you, that their eye notices that sort of thing automatically.)

...all of which is to say, this is a great post for illustrating vividly, well, how women are posed on fantasy covers and what that means. :)

Date: 2012-01-12 12:43 am (UTC)

jain

So much agreement with this comment. I'm an ex-dancer, and I, too, can do those poses without too much difficulty, despite the 12+ years and 30+ pounds between me and my younger dancing self. But the real point isn't whether the poses are attainable, but that they are, so very obviously, poses: something done for the audience rather than something the character does for herself.